The best description I've seen of what it feels like to make art 

Despite the number of hours I've put in over the last couple of years it still feels incredibly pretentious to call myself an artist.

And yet, I want to embrace that label.

I think about how the term of address for people performing at open mics and poetry slams is "poet". You do the thing, you are the thing.

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re: The best description I've seen of what it feels like to make art 

@starkatt you make the glow stoles, you do the thing, therefore you are the thing :3

@starkatt what about things that arguably aren't art - are either functional, or whose primary purpose isn't actually to be art?

@starkatt Most of what I make, tbh. The Favor coins; a sauce dish and chopstick rest for my grandmother; a box I plan to make. Things whose primary purpose is not to be artistic, but to be functional, and for which the beauty or the aesthetic value is secondary.

@CoronaCoreanici Thinking that practical objects can't be expressive is a quick route to a spiritually impoverished life.

@starkatt Hm. I agree, and maybe the desire to mark what I do for a hobby as "not art" acts as something of a defense mechanism, but I think the crux of it to be that if you cut a long scratch into my sauce dish, I'd be irritated, but if you punched a hole in the bottom, I'd be truly upset. The thing's primary function isn't to be expressive, it's to serve some specific function.

@CoronaCoreanici I designed my glow fox mask to express something. The paint is chipped and starting to flake because it's not really right for that application.

I'm okay with that because the mask finds its life in being worn, and worn in settings where it may be damaged.

@CoronaCoreanici When I make a v2 I'll try to make it more robust.

But even as I wish the current version was more durable, I'm not too upset about its degradation. The wear means it's being worn.

@CoronaCoreanici (oh neat you can use either meaning for either word in that last sentence and it works.)

@starkatt @starkatt *Ooh*. That's a good point. But I think that in that case, the property that makes it function as a glow fox mask isn't entirely dependent on its appearance.

Consider a lump of clay shaped like a person. If you remove its nose, the statue remains, even if the clay has changed. Mash it up, and the clay is the same, even though the statue is gone.

@Aradia @starkatt Ah, I see - art as that which retains value even in the absence of pratical usefulness or productivity.

@Aradia @starkatt Or, at the least, something pursued in a way that doesn't particularly care about those things.

@Aradia @starkatt (Math, for instance. I'm comfortable calling myself an artist as far as being a mathematician goes; I work with definitions and logical structures instead of paint or clay.)

@starkatt @Aradia I guess the other part of this is, tbh, my gut emotional reaction to it. If I considered the Favor coins to be art, I'd hate them, because they're not perfect. There are blatantly obvious hideous flaws in them. But they do what I need them to and they're pretty enough, in a rough way, so I'm more or less fine.

@starkatt @CoronaCoreanici Absolutely same. And I don't need like my noodlings on YouTube are especially art but to some they could be! Like your coins.

@starkatt @Aradia Don't worry, I just have very high expectations of myself. Maybe math or my upbringing has warped me.

@starkatt @Aradia I think this is why I had to become a mathematician. if I might flatter myself a little, I've got a pretty finely tuned aesthetic sense, but basically no technical skill, and if I had to spend my time making something *wrong*, something *imperfect*, and then putting it into the world, I'd scream myself to death.

@Aradia @starkatt Yeah, and I'm content to do that for a hobby, where I can at least sidestep all those concerns about imperfection a little. There's a reason I don't draw, though.

@Aradia @starkatt But if I do math for a living, everything is perfect in some way - either perfectly correct or perfectly wrong. A statement can be used to prove 1 = 2, or it can't. And if there's a minor blemish on my instantiation of Something True, then at least near no one else can even start to see it.

@CoronaCoreanici @starkatt Doesn't that indicate some kind of fundamental beauty in the universe though?

@Aradia @starkatt Yeah. And regardless of whether or not it's human-constructed - it probably is - I'll never be good enough for it.

@CoronaCoreanici @Aradia Interesting that you say math is human-constructed when I seem to recall you arguing for the opposite a couple weeks ago :)

@starkatt @Aradia Math is not human constructed. Mathematical beauty, however, probably is.

@CoronaCoreanici @starkatt Y'all are making me want to watch the film adaptation of Carl Sagan's "Contact" again! <3

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@starkatt @Aradia hhhhh believe me, I've done enough logic to know why not to do that, but I consider the simultaneous and equivalent failure of halting oracles and consistent, complete, nontrivial second-order logic to be a wound at the heart of the world

agreeing at length 

@starkatt well uh... why not artisan or craftswoman as alternative terms?

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