something I think about often is the time I saw an artist on twitter learning programming and they were like “considering how much more programmers are paid, this is a lot simpler than I thought it would be” and I was like “yuuuup”

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dismantle the idea that programming is for smart people™️ and that they deserve more money than others. tear down their haughty towers until silicon valley is a wasteland of shattered ivory

@sol For me, programming is mostly puzzle solving.

I look at what I want the computer to do, and figure out all the little bits that need it to work. Then, i make each little bit work on its own.

Then I put all these little puzzle pieces together like a puzzle and pull my hair out because it's suddenly not working, and google for a few hours until I come to the realization that oh i've made a typo and i should have turned on verbose errors and then I feel like an utter idiot because why didn't I double check my work instead of assuming that it was right and then I go do something else for a while because I'm too stressed to think logically at that point.

Then I come back, fix my typos, and start googling away as I flounder my way thru the language documentation to implement the NEXT little piece into the program. Repeat last paragraph until you have a complete working program!

Then, deploy it on the target system and weep as it has an issue that never showed during testing.

@sol You realise of course that what you said is exactly what neocons and rightwingers want you to, right? To turn workers against each other instead of bringing them together in order to fight for common goals.

“Hey, the textile workers managed to get the weekend off! Let's tear down their industry until nothing's left of it!”

Come on. Wise up.

@josemanuel this is such a blatantly bad-faith reading of my intent that I’m not sure it’s even worth addressing

@sol Do it or not. It's your choice.

But, just so you know, I didn't write that in bad faith. I am a programmer and I'm not well paid or even well regarded by my non-programmer colleagues, even though if it wasn't for me they wouldn't even have a job in the first place. Can you really blame me for taking offense at your petty, ignorant, insensitive and blatantly false comment?

@josemanuel you realize by “tear their ivory towers down” I wasn’t literally talking about razing buildings in the valley, right?

@sol Yes, I did. And even if it was meant literally, I could not care less about it. But you also said: «Dismantle the idea that programming is for smart people™️ and that they deserve more money than others.» And I assume that was not poetic license.

Maybe you should stop thinking about dismantling what others made through education and hard work, and start getting along and collaborating with us in achieving common goals. If we're in such a privileged position, we'd be more helpful, right?

@josemanuel okay, I’ll bite, what are these “common goals” you’re talking about?

@sol For a start, you complained about us earning more money than others (but not deserving it, for some reason). Maybe we should fight for living wages for everyone, and for the right to work remotely, whenever possible. That would make for better work/life balance.

@josemanuel yes, I am for a living wage for everyone. all I’m saying is that the implication of the current system, where people working in tech earn a living wage and then some, while people working in many other fields often do not, is that only people who are “smart” deserve a living wage

@sol Ok. Now we're talking like people. Thank you.

First of all, that's a generalisation, and, as all generalisations, is not true for everyone (or even for most). As I said, I am not well paid, and like me many others.

Second, your implication is based on flawed assumptions: For example, where does ‘deserving’ enter your argument? There's no deserving; only getting. The question should be: What did they do to GET that? And learn from it.

@sol Third: Smart people. Of course you have to be at least somewhat smart to work with computers, and also have an inclination towards them. But working with computers is not the same as working (or even creating) a tech company.

You have to be educated, too, because it's a field that requires certain mathematical knowledge and an orderly mind.

Does that mean only The Chosen Ones can do it? Of course not, but there's a bar. Or at least there should be one. Just like at any other job.

@sol Extra: Are more educated people entitled to better paid jobs? I don't think so (because, depending on the country, access to higher education is not exactly fair), but, at the same time, I believe that if you took the time and effort to do it, you should get compensated somehow.

That said, computer programming is still a very “equal-opportunity” field. At least where I live. We still value the quality of the actual work done over academic titles. That may be changing, though, sadly.

@josemanuel there’s a lot I could pick apart here. whether it’s your odd implication that generalizations can’t be true, unpacking the phrase “orderly mind”, or addressing the framing of computer science as an “equal opportunity field” (which is laughably false)

but I’m not gonna debate you, because it would be disingenuous to imply my opinion might change. it seems you have fundamentally different values

@sol @josemanuel lmao why are you talking to someone on mastodon.social

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