is there a reason instances couldn't just have a federation allowlist, but with something akin to follow requests supported as well

y'know, so new instances can ping admins and be like "hey can we federate with you please" :blobcatthinking:

also you could do a web of trust/vouch system pretty easily? if i haven't seen this new instance before, but this other instance i trust has already approved them, then i can probably auto-approve them too. that kind of thing

i mean, if actually handling federation requests manually at the instance level is too much work anyway. which i suspect it isn't, since there aren't that many new instances popping up over time? :blobcatthinking:

@CyclopsCaveman @00dani I hate that this is the only argument available against it.

@FrostedSiren @00dani its almost like the choice isn't between allowlist and denylist and you can just have both and let the admins decide what they think is right for their instance

@CyclopsCaveman @00dani As though this isn't already a tool used quite effectively for user registration.

How... Strange.

@00dani that would be a really dang useful feature

specially since rn i'm having to catch up and request the admin himself to add all the instances my friendos are on :<

@00dani would be neat if maybe glitch-soc could do this. I have seen new sysadmins and old alike asking for it, and not everyone wants to do it the way.

@00dani i really oughta try to make the fedi software i keep saying im gonna make, because this exact thing is what i had planned for being the default type of federation

with customizable depth of trust too! (i.e. auto-approve instances who fed with instances on your list, or one step lower, with instances that they federate with or even more.etc)

@00dani first gen monsterpit had something kinda like that where it would silence new instances until folks interacted with them enough

iwrc it was buggy and hard to maintain though, but it's a good idea

@00dani The Matrix folk are doing something vaguely related in the distributed-reputation moderation system they're building for self-service moderation in e2ee rooms? It might be interesting to look into what, exactly, they've actually tried there?

@00dani so, sending an email to the instance admin and asking them to add you?

@cadence yes, but as an integrated part of the federation process? so for example you see "pending federation request" in the admin panel, and then it goes to "federating" if they approve, and if the remote instance decides to block you then you can't send any more requests

or maybe you can send requests and they get blackholed, i dunno. one of those

also you can automatically fire off a federation request when someone on one instance tries to interact with someone on a non-federated instance, that kind of thing

@00dani but how could it send a message to ask to federate if it's not on the federation list in the first place?

@cadence it'd be a special kind of message that's allowed through by default, unlike everything else going through the federation. not too tricky really

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